all I said was "rape is rape"

[lizziebelle]

I posted on Facebook that rape is rape, and I am shocked (and frankly appalled) at the number of people, all women mind you, who are defending Roman Polanski. I didn't say anything about how the victim (and remember, she *was* a victim) feels about it. I didn't say anything about his being arrested, or about his conviction, or anything like that. Just, "rape is rape." Oh, and it's also statutory rape, and it's against the law. It's shaken me, to say the least. Do they even realize what they're saying? Rape is *never* OK, no matter who you are.

jimhines has posted a thoughtful piece from the perspective of a rape counselor. Go read it.

wordweaverlynn posted a link to a piece on the Hollywood apologists. Also thought-provoking reading.

I really don't care (and can understand, a little) that the victim (remember her?) wants this to go away. That's not what I'm objecting to. I also don't much care about how/where/why they arrested him, or the deal he made with the judge, or any of that. Here's what I care about:

1. The girl was *13* fricken years old
2. She said *no*
3. He was *convicted*
4. He *fled the country*

That's all.

Comments

[nivho.livejournal.com]

I agree with you, honey.

[lizziebelle.livejournal.com]

Thanks, honey! *smooch*

[anaquana.livejournal.com]

THANK YOU!!!

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!

[lizziebelle.livejournal.com]

You're quite welcome.
It's not often that I get up on a soapbox, but when I do, watch out! It's because I really believe in something. The claws *will* come out if necessary. *g*

[sandwell.livejournal.com]

I really don't care (and can understand, a little) that the victim (remember her?) wants this to go away.

i strongly suspect that if she'd been hankering after justice all these years, or had since died or couldn't be contacted or something, then this would be pretty much a non-issue, for precisely the reasons you state.

in a sense it's not much different to war criminals being arrested/prosecuted 40-50 years plus after the event. and there's very little argument about that taking place - except for the unreliability of evidence. which doesn't apply here since he's already been charged.

the fact that she hasn't been and isn't much fussed makes things awkward since, if one were to believe that punishment were set to be in the best interests in the victim, as some people do, the victim has stated her best interests are to acquit him⁽¹⁾⁽²⁾

[lamentables.livejournal.com]

i strongly suspect that if she'd been hankering after justice all these years...then this would be pretty much a non-issue, for precisely the reasons you state.

I cynically incline towards thinking that if the victim had expressed a desire for justice (or retribution) that would have added fuel to the movement in Polanski's defence.

[sandwell.livejournal.com]

interesting. you think that those defending him would have put up some kind of 'she's only getting at him and harassing him because he's famous' argument?

two words : "Phil Spector". :D

[lamentables.livejournal.com]

I think that if they are able, in all seriousness, to argue that he's suffered enough by being exile for 30 years, then they might argue all the more vehemently that he's suffered exile and the hounding of a vindictive woman.

[sandwell.livejournal.com]

all i'll say is that he hasn't exactly had a *hard* exile, it's not as if he's been living in a refugee camp or anything ...

... i'm not sure anyone could realistically argue he's *suffered* in exile!

[lizziebelle.livejournal.com]

It's not up to the victim whether prosecution happens, which in the case of rape is an especially good thing. Often the victims are afraid to testify, or pressured to believe it's their fault.

[sandwell.livejournal.com]

er, indeed. which is why i made the note 1 about a crime only being a crime if it's reported - it's widely known that rape especially is under*reported*, never mind those cases where it's reported but which never go to trial. that doesn't make it right.

[lamentables.livejournal.com]

My flists are full of people wondering aloud about the Polanski apologists. I have read and am incensed by the rush to defend him, but I seem to have successfully surrounded myself with smart people who agree with me.

[lizziebelle.livejournal.com]

My friends on LJ all seem to be agreeing with me, but a couple of my friends on FB, who are people I know in real life, have left me speechless with their defense of him. My virtual friends seem to be more in line with what I believe! *g*

[tehuti.livejournal.com]

I'm with you on this. I think that he should have to come back and face the consequences of his actions. I'd even be OK with the court saying that the original plea deal would be honored, since that is what everyone involved wanted, right up until the judge changed course at the last minute. I'd rather see a more just punishment, but go ahead, give Polanski his original plea-bargin sentence of time served. But then prosecute him for unlawful flight.

[lizziebelle.livejournal.com]

Absolutely.

[joanofarchetype.livejournal.com]

tehuti has a great point -- honor the original plea deal. But he needs to come here and go through the process.

[madwriter.livejournal.com]

I've been seriously wondering if a lot of these celeb defenders just don't want a bad "precedent" set that could snare them later on . . .

[lizziebelle.livejournal.com]

I think you may be right.

[justjanus.livejournal.com]

What I get from the defense of Polanski boils down to "but, but, the law shouldn't apply to *celebrities*!". I'm particularly bemused by the argument that "artists" should have special immunity, because I'm pretty sure the people saying this don't mean the same thing I would mean by "artists."

[leucotheasveil.livejournal.com]

Ugh. This is the 2nd post in 24 hours making me feel better about not making a facebook account. Not that there aren't eeeejits on lj, but the ratio of crap to sense is much better over here.

Roam Polanski had sex with a barely-pubescent, under-age, more-than-half-his-age child. That is morally wrong and against the law. He was in exile not because we are meanies, but because he was a pussy and would not face the justice system. If he was innocent, he could have proved it and moved on with his life. I feel bad for the girl involved, I feel she was a double victim. Where the hell were her legal guardians? Her mother should have also been charged for child neglect and/or endangerment for pimping her daughter out to a known womanizer. You don't send an underage child to a photo shoot with a grown man without an adult chaperone. Both the mother and Polanski should have had an adult present to protect everyone involved. I suspect they both knew what would happen. The fact that people have enabled, pitied, apologized for him makes me sick.

[lizziebelle.livejournal.com]

Well, the people on FB who posted are people I know. Or thought I knew. My virtual friends are turning out to be a lot more reasonable than my RL ones!

[leucotheasveil.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I have learned to not talk about anything important to me in the lunchroom at work. People who seem nice, and vaguely intelligent can say the dumbest things out loud. :(

[ami-1.livejournal.com]

Hey, I'm on your side, riemember? lOl!

[lizziebelle.livejournal.com]

I didn't mean you! You agreed with me. I was talking about the ones who were arguing with me.
*hug*

[pjthompson]

Kevin Smith agrees with you, too. From his Twitter:

@ThatKevinSmith here: "Look, I dig ROSEMARY'S BABY; but rape's rape. Do the crime, do the time." The girl was f-ing 13!!

[lizziebelle.livejournal.com]

I knew he had to be a smart guy -- we share a birthday. ;)

[pkmorrison.livejournal.com]

What the hell is wrong with these people? Whoopi Goldberg??? "It wasn't rape-rape"? Well, Whoop, is that really what you think, you jackass-jackass?? Perhaps you should be fired-fired.

It's not rocket science. Kid was 13. She said no. She said she was scared. He didn't care and raped her orally, vaginally and anally. He was convicted. He ran away like the coward he obviously is.

What's even to argue about here? Morons like Goldberg, Woody Allen (oh, now THERE's irony for you! The poster boy for incestuous pederasty!), Debra Winger...narcissistic Hollywood bimbos thinking, if you can call it that, that because Polanski happens to be an artist all should be forgiven.

No, he's a convicted fugitive child rapist. What part of that don't they get?

[lizziebelle.livejournal.com]

Exactly. You'd think Woody Allen being a supporter would be a big ol'red flag!

[leucotheasveil.livejournal.com]

Whoopi Goldberg?!? OMGWTFBBQ!!!!!

*shudder* If Woody Allen comes to your defense, you know it's time to turn yourself in!

[lizziebelle.livejournal.com]

I know! I'm really disappointed in her. I thought she was cool. Apparently not. I wonder how she'd feel if it were her granddaughter...

[ami-1.livejournal.com]

vile and disgusting

[lizziebelle.livejournal.com]

What I don't get is that these apologists are women! Feminist, Pagan women. *boggle*

[ami-1.livejournal.com]

I would argue they really are not feminists...

[lizziebelle.livejournal.com]

I think they have to turn in their cards now. ;)

[ami-1.livejournal.com]

i just kicked up some more dirt on your fb post..

[lizziebelle.livejournal.com]

I see that. *g*

Who knew this would be so controversial?

[ami-1.livejournal.com]

I'm astounded

[rhythmaning.livejournal.com]

I agree completely. He pleaded guilty and ran away!

It is strange how this case has divided people.